E-mail to Russell Carter - 3 January 2004:|
As mentioned earlier, I have several photos from my father. One is the same one you have on your web site, "Peter and Ann Carter Family Photo". The one I have is very clear and is mounted on a dark cardboard backing and frame. Getting the actual photo off would be quite a task. I have tried scanning it but the whole thing is too big for my scanner bed. Around the cardboard edge of the photo, some-one, possibly my father, has indicated the names of the people in the photo. This has been done in pencil and is bloody hard to read. For convenience, I may overwrite it all in white ink. The interesting thing is, a few of them differ from the names on your photo. I have done an numbered outline copy which is attached.You can compare the names with your photo. I would be interested in your comments.
Look forward to hearing from you.
Reply to Kerry Lay - 4 January 2004:
Thanks for the numbered image, Kerry.. I’ve compared the photos, and I surmise the following:
(1) Tom [John Thomas Carter] m. 10 Nov 1906 (11) Emma Carter [Edith Emma Lay]
(18) Eric Peter Carter b. 1 Sep 1907
(10) George Ager Carter b. 14 May 1908
The next child in this family was born 1911 (John Thomas) – He’s not in the photo. Does this mean that the photo was taken between 1908 and 1911? Baby George looks younger than 2 years. – Is this a family get together to mark a wedding or wedding anniversary? - Perhaps taken in Queensland? Unless Peter and Ann Carter were visiting New Zealand - I think that they moved to NZ permanently in March 1916.
(2) Tom Simpson m. 27 Sep 1897 (9) Maud Simpson [Alice Maud Carter]
(8) Herb Simpson (Herbert) b. ?
(17) Bob Simpson (Robert) b. ?
(20) Perc. Simpson (Percy) b. ?
(22) Ollie Simpson (Olive) b. ?
(23) Elsie Simpson b. ?
All children to this family are in the photo… (Herbert is the eldest) Percy looks to be a similar age as (aunt) Ellen Carter (b. 1902). Ollie and Elsie are close in age (twins?) … Ollie might be the younger of the two. Herbert is tall (takes after his father) compared to (uncle) Bertie on the other side of the photo who looks about 16 years of age? (b. 1894). According to Bertrams enlistment papers to the New Zealand Expeditionary Force dated 5 January 1917 he was only 5 foot 5 inches tall, had a fair complexion, blue eyes, and fair hair. In 1917 he was 22 years old and by then reportedly had had an operation for a double hernia.
(3) Chas. [Charles] Parsons m. 8 Feb 1908 (16) Mabel Parsons [Mabel Ethel Carter]
If the photo was taken on the 35th anniversary of Peter and Ann’s wedding (17 Jan 1910) then Charles and Mabel would have been married for a little less than two years. There are no Parsons children in the photo, but they were to have at least 3 children: Ethel Isobel b. 15 Feb 1910, Zena Mabel b. 25 May 1911 and Jack Charles b. 1917. (Is this another indication that the photo was taken before Feb. 1910? - Is Mabel Parsons pregnant in the photo?)
(4) Bob [Robert Carter]
Robert Carter married Eva May MacVicar 13 Jul 1910 - She's not in the photo probably because the photo was taken prior to their marriage.
(5) Jack Lay [John Charles Lay] m. 14 Mar 1901 (14) Esther Lay [Esther Carter]
(15) Vic Lay (Victor Charles) b. 1909
(19) Ernie Lay (Ernest Arthur Lay) b. 23 Jul 1904
(24) George Lay (George Thomas Lay) b. 18 Dec 1902
Another child, Mabel Esther Lay was born (and died) in 1902. Note the age and appearance in the photo of baby Vic – indicative that the photo was taken 1910 rather than 1909 perhaps?
(6) Albie [Albert Ernest Carter]
Albie was born 2 Oct 1888. He looks about 22 years of age in the photo? Albert later married Florence (? of Laingholm). They had at least 4 children: Ernest, Barry, Shirley and Bruce. I have no further information on this family.
(7) Bertie [Bertram Henry Carter]
Bertie was born 17 Dec 1894 (16 years of age). I’ve no idea if he married or when he died.
(21) Nellie [Ellen Carter]
Nellie was born 26 Jan 1902. If this was her parents 35th wedding anniversary then it was just 9 days before her 8th birthday. I’ve no idea if she married or when she died.
That’s all the people in the photo. I think your photo is accurate because it’s consistent throughout, families are complete and children are grouped around their mothers as might naturally occur. In comparing the differences with the copy that I have, this is what I surmise:
(1) Different - mine says Robert Carter – yours says Tom Carter
(2) Same = Tom Simpson
(3) Same = Charles Parsons
(4) Different – mine says James Carter – yours says Bob (Robert Carter).
James William Carter (2nd eldest child of Peter and Ann Carter) was born 22 Nov 1877. He married Margaret Hansen 7 Dec 1899 at Maryborough, Queensland. They’re not named in your photo at all and after about 11 years of marriage you'd think that they would have some children - but none of their children are present. This perhaps indicates that the photo was taken in New Zealand and that James William and Margaret (and family) were still back in Queensland? Perhaps Peter and Ann were visiting family who had already settled in NZ? My photo says that number (14) is Margaret Hansen (Yours says that it is Esther Lay). In the photo this person is holding a baby. Also, my photo says that number (11) is Ester Lay (Yours says Emma Carter) – In this photo the person is also holding a baby. Whereas the names of both babies are uncertain in my photo – the names that you have are seemingly clear and also seem to be natural (when considering the family groupings). Also absent from this photo is Peter and Ann Carter’s first born child: Mary Francis. Mary was born about 1876. She married Henry Wilchefski on 30 June 1897 at Maryborough, Queensland. Henry died 14 Nov 1903 (before the date of the photo). They had one child together; Victor Claude b. 12 Dec 1902. Again, the photo may have been taken in New Zealand and Mary Francis Wilchefski and Victor were back in Queensland? Another interesting point is that the Hansen’s and Wilchefski’s came from a family of German immigrants and were related.
(5) Same = Jack/John Lay
(6) Same = Albert Carter
(7) Same = Bertram Carter
(8) Same = Herbert Simpson
(9) Same = Alice Maud Simpson
(10) Different – mine is uncertain – yours says George Carter
(11) Different – mine says Esther Lay – yours says Emma Carter
(12) Same = Peter Carter
(13) Same = Ann Carter
(14) Different – mine says Margaret Carter (Hansen) – yours says Esther Lay
(15) Different – mine says (unclear) Carter – yours says Vic Lay
(16) Same = Mabel Parsons
(17) Same = Robert Simpson
(18) Different – mine is uncertain – yours says Eric Carter
(19) Different – mine says George Thomas – yours says Ernie Lay
George Thomas Lay? born 1902 – you have him in the front row at number (24)
(20) Same = Percy Simpson
(21) Same = Ellen Carter
(22) Same = Olive Simpson
(23) Same = Elsie Simpson
(24) Different – mine says James William – yours says George Lay
Interesting to note that whereas your photo accounts for complete family members that photo that I have does not mention –and probably should mention - George Lay, Eric Carter, Victor Lay, Ernie Lay… Which leads me to believe that your fathers photo is the one to go by.